In Episode 19 of the Disruptors for Good podcast I speak with military veteran, Jesse Gould, Founder of Heroic Hearts Project on how ayahuasca therapy is transforming the lives of veterans with PTSD and why its important to overcome the stigma of psychedelics.

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About the Heroic Hearts Project

Heroic Hearts Project (HHP) offers a proprietary program to veterans who are interested in pursuing psychedelic treatment options. They primarily work with ayahuasca retreat centers due to the powerful effect it has shown to have on healing PTSD.

The program has been designed to ensure veterans get the most out of this valuable opportunity and are set up for success when they return home.

They also provide financial scholarships to veterans who are struggling financially. To date, the organization has provided more than $200,000 in support to veterans applicants.

The Heroic Hearts Project (HHP) is a registered 501(c)(3) non profit that connects military veterans struggling with mental trauma to ayahuasca therapy retreats.

These veterans typically have tried all the available resources offered by the Department of Veteran Affairs with limited success leaving them with very few options.

The organization opens the doors to other viable options. HHP also provides support and professional counseling to these veterans throughout the process.

Their mission is to provide hope and healing to military veterans that have been left hopeless by the current Veteran Affairs system.

They seek to spread awareness in the veteran community of powerful plant based therapies like ayahuasca and end the excessive dependence on powerful medications to treat mental traumas.

Ayahuasca Therapy

Ayahuasca is a powerful psychedelic plant medicine with a long history of traditional use in the Amazonian basin. Over the last few decades, ayahuasca has become increasingly popular in Western cultural circles, and is now used by people from all walks of life as a means of personal and spiritual transformation.

Ayahuasca therapy refers to the use of ayahuasca in a structured setting, usually with the guidance of a trained shaman or facilitator. Ayahuasca therapy can be an incredibly powerful experience, offering insights into one’s own psyche and helping to bring about positive changes in one’s life.

If you’re considering ayahuasca therapy, it’s important to do your research and choose a reputable provider. Make sure you understand the potential risks and benefits of the experience, and be sure to ask any questions you may have before committing to anything.

What is PTSD?

PTSD is a disorder that can develop after a person is exposed to a traumatic event, such as combat, a natural disaster, sexual assault, or other violent personal experience.

People with PTSD may relive the event through flashbacks and nightmares; they may feel emotionally numb and detached from others; and they may experience a range of other problems, such as difficulty sleeping, irritability, and depression.

PTSD is a serious condition that can have lasting effects on a person’s mental and physical health. But it is treatable, and there are many ways to manage the symptoms. With treatment, people with PTSD can lead full and productive lives.

What are the symptoms of PTSD?

The symptoms of PTSD fall into four main categories: intrusive thoughts, avoidance, negative changes in mood and thinking, and changes in physical and emotional reactions.

Intrusive thoughts: People with PTSD may relive the traumatic event through flashbacks or nightmares. They may also have intrusive thoughts about the event.

Avoidance: People with PTSD may try to avoid anything that reminds them of the traumatic event. They may also avoid people or places that remind them of the trauma.

Negative changes in mood and thinking: People with PTSD may have negative, distorted, or dysfunctional beliefs about themselves, other people, or the world. They may also feel hopelessness, shame, or despair.

Changes in physical and emotional reactions: People with PTSD may be easily startled, have trouble sleeping, or be unable to concentrate. They may also have angry outbursts, feel irritable or aggressive, or be hypervigilant (on constant “red alert”).

Interview Transcript

00:00

Grant: What’s up everybody? This is Grant from Causeartist. Today we are chatting with Jesse Gould, the founder of Heroic Hearts Project. Usually, we talk to businesses on this podcast, but I thought this was a really interesting nonprofit. Jesse comes from a business background, and how he started this nonprofit is really interesting.

The Heroic Hearts Project is a nonprofit that connects military veterans struggling with mental trauma to ayahuasca therapy retreats. These veterans go to group sessions in Peru or Costa Rica to engage with this plant medicine to help them deal with PTSD and emotional issues.

Often, these veterans have tried every medical procedure and prescription given to them by the Department of Veteran Affairs or their doctors, but nothing has worked. In some cases, traditional routes of therapy and medicine have made them worse. For many, this is a last effort to stabilize their mental state.

We’ll talk to Jesse about his own journey dealing with depression and mental instability after his service. We’ll discuss how he experienced ayahuasca, what it did for him when he went to Peru, and how it inspired him to start his nonprofit to help other soldiers. This is an important topic about how we can help veterans. There’s some legislation around plant medicine that we’ll talk about as well. This conversation aims to open minds and educate.

I hope you learn as much as I did. Let’s start with your journey to starting the Heroic Hearts Project. You dedicated your life to this, so let’s begin in 2009 after you graduated from Cornell with a degree in economics. What led you on this path?

03:12

Jesse: Of course. I graduated from Cornell University in 2009 with a degree in economics and went straight into investment banking, working at a small boutique investment bank in New York City. It was a weird time because of the financial crisis of 2008-2009. Many of my classmates were in limbo with laid-off parents and uncertain job prospects.

I liked the world of finance and how money moves, but I felt unfulfilled. I thought college would provide insight, but I just memorized facts and didn’t feel like an adult. Being in New York, the juxtaposition of money versus doing good was confusing. I always wanted to join the military but didn’t know the timing. In 2010, I enlisted, went through basic training, and was selected for Ranger training, which was extremely difficult.

I was based in Savannah, Georgia, at the First Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, and served for four and a half years with three combat deployments to Afghanistan. The experience developed me physically and mentally.

05:43

Grant: Was there a specific event during your service that led you to start the nonprofit, or did it develop afterward when you noticed symptoms and sought traditional therapy?

06:11

Jesse: It was more of the latter. When you’re in the military, especially as a Ranger, you’re constantly going at 100%. The adrenaline keeps you going, so you don’t notice symptoms. After leaving the military, I traveled around Asia, considering starting a business.

Eventually, I settled in Tampa, Florida, and took a corporate finance job. That’s when my issues became more apparent. Self-medicating with alcohol and an unhealthy lifestyle became more prominent. The corporate finance job wasn’t fulfilling, and I became more depressed and anxious. The symptoms of veterans’ mental health issues are often subtle and related to traumatic brain injury from constant exposure to explosions.

It’s similar to what NFL players experience with CTE. The VA didn’t mention brain injury when I left the military, even though I was a mortar man constantly exposed to explosions. The VA in Tampa told me they couldn’t help me if I wasn’t willing to go on medication. I didn’t want to chemically alter my brain with SSRIs, so I was left to figure it out on my own.

11:57

Grant: What led you to try ayahuasca? Was it a podcast or some other form of research?

12:34

Jesse: I heard a podcast about ayahuasca, and it planted a seed. At first, I was skeptical because I had stigmas about psychedelics. But the podcast made it seem different. Ayahuasca has a long history of use in indigenous cultures for healing. It addresses treatment-resistant depression, anxiety, and addictions. The challenging nature of ayahuasca and the Amazon setting appealed to me. In early 2017, I went to a reputable retreat in the Amazon in Peru. I had a profound experience and saw amazing stories of healing in just a week.

13:09

Grant: Did you go by yourself?

13:10

Jesse: Yes, I went by myself and didn’t tell many people. I wanted to experience it without other people’s conceptions influencing me. I went to South America to figure things out and ended up having a life-changing experience.

14:34

Grant: How did the retreat prepare you for the ayahuasca experience?

16:04

Jesse: It depends on the retreat. Some prepare you well, while others throw you in. The retreat I went to did a good job easing us into it, explaining the history and how it’s made. We did a tobacco ceremony to set intentions. But with ayahuasca, there’s no way to fully prepare someone. You have to learn to navigate it on your own. Multiple ceremonies help because the first one is often about getting rid of nerves and figuring out how it works. Subsequent ceremonies allow you to go deeper and address more profound issues.

17:30

Grant: Did this experience inspire you to start the Heroic Hearts Project?

19:44

Jesse: Yes, it was the catalyst. The experience was difficult, but I came out feeling different. I saw amazing healing stories and started researching the scientific evidence, which showed potential for treating PTSD and other issues. I also talked to my military buddies, who were open to it because they knew the traditional treatments weren’t working. Veterans have a high rate of suicide and mental health issues, and the VA often overprescribes medications without addressing the root problems. Psychedelics offered a promising alternative.

22:33

Grant: Do you go on every retreat with the veterans, or do you have a relationship with the retreats where veterans can go on their own?

22:54

Jesse: I can’t go on every retreat, but we have relationships with retreats in Peru, Colombia, and Costa Rica. We send groups of two or three vets so they have a built-in support network. We provide full support with certified integration coaches who prepare them and follow up afterward. We also do weekly video integration chats for all our alumni. For larger groups, like our recent veteran influencers retreat, I go to help manage the group and share our mission.

25:58

Grant: What are some of the positive outcomes you’ve seen from veterans who have gone on these retreats?

26:15

Jesse: The outcomes have been overwhelmingly positive. On the low end, some veterans didn’t get much out of it, but none were worse off. On the high end, it has been life-changing, saving lives, and allowing veterans to live to their fullest potential. Some have stayed off medications like SSRIs after the retreat. Many have overcome suicidal ideation and found new purpose in life. They often make healthier lifestyle choices, like eating better, drinking less, and finding fulfilling jobs and relationships.

30:45

Grant: Have you had any conversations with politicians or officials about using psychedelics for therapy?

31:26

Jesse: It’s a difficult but moving conversation. The first steps are gathering evidence and developing protocols. Organizations like MAPS are in the final stages of trials for MDMA for PTSD, showing promising results. Marijuana is also making headway. The evidence is becoming overwhelming, but the system is slow to change. Psychedelics are still Schedule I substances, making research difficult. We need to push for more research and challenge the VA to be more proactive in supporting veterans.

35:09

Grant: How do you fund the retreats? Do veterans have to pay anything, or is it all donor-funded?

35:30

Jesse: It’s mostly donor-funded. Veterans contribute to their flights to have skin in the game, but we cover the rest. The nonprofit space is competitive, so we’re trying different funding approaches, like an ambassador program to empower vets to fundraise locally and executive retreats where the price of admission supports a veteran. We’re always looking for creative ways to support more vets.

38:45

Grant: What has been the response from your family and friends to your journey and the changes in you?

39:07

Jesse: The response has been positive. They saw the changes in me and were inspired. My mom recently went on her first retreat and had a profound experience. Friends who were initially skeptical saw the positive impact on my life and were motivated to try it themselves. It’s important to let people see the benefits rather than push it on them.

42:58

Grant: For donors, what is the cost to support a veteran going on a retreat?

43:40

Jesse: Near 100% of donations go directly to supporting the veteran. We have an all-volunteer staff, and I cover most logistic costs out of my own pocket. Donations fund the retreat, integration coaching, and other necessary costs to ensure the veteran has a safe and responsible experience. We try to be flexible and work with donors who want to support specific veterans or causes.

45:29

Grant: Can others join the integration calls to hear from veterans about their experiences?

45:56

Jesse: If people are interested, they can email us through our website, heroic hearts project.org, and we’ll coordinate. The calls are primarily for veterans who have gone